Some of it is rumors...I get that it may not all be true (and I worked in a place where there were a lot of rumors, good and bad about the guy, and where many of the rumors that are public were laughably obviously false to everyone who worked there. But I think Derek Jeter is GROSS. I think Jeter represents America, alright, but in a slightly different way than Fleming argues. I think he represents what a shallow, image-based culture we've become. He is called "classy" because he isn't loud, but he does not behave with class. Not in any meaningful way. It's not hard to keep up a positive PR image and not be genuine anymore. If Jeter played for the Yankees of the 1920s, the media would have fricasseed him for his dalliances...his dilettante lifestyle...his lack of team ethos...his bad defense even. You betcha. He would have been persona non-grata in New York. But today, New York *loves* a playboy...trust me...I lived there. Todeay New York LOVES self-centered people as long as they're not in your face about it. And Jeter is their role model. As long as he played well (he did), didn't cause media trouble (he didn't, because the media thinks sleeping around and spreading STDs is awesome these days), he didn't malign the city (duh), and went about his business quietly (he did)...he is their perfect mascot.
I think that is sad.
I, for one, will be glad when this season is over.
.
If Dr. D's musings on Life, Love, and Hope tend to run contrary to your taste, you certainly ain't going to like this one. Run screaming. Your friend, Jeff
.....
Gordon sez,
Gordon Gross: ESPN has a poll: "Where does Derek Jeter rank among the best baseball players of all time?" Options are top 5, top 10, top 15. top 25 and not in the top 25. Only 30% of ESPN correctly guessed "not in the top 25." The rest must be New Yawkahs or silly football fans on a 9 day bender...
.
"Correctly guessed" :- ) Heh! Matt follows on, "Not in the top 50," which is commendable objectivity since he's from that area, right?
In fairness, Jeter has racked up nearly 3,500 hits AND:
- He plays an extreme glove position
- His OBP is wonderful
- He's had considerable gap power
If the M's could come up with a shortstop who went over 3,000 hits, all in our unie, here's guessing that we'd think he's pretty cool too.
...
That said, Jeter has the same career WAR as does Rafael Palmeiro. His WAR are almost identical to Bobby Grich, who split his career between the Orioles and Angels, who a lot of you kiddies have probably never heard of. Larry Walker has more WAR than Jeter. None of those guys are deified, much less shoved into a stratum with Lou Gehrig and Mickey Mantle.
There are a LOT of great baseball players on the list, if you're going to start talking "top 25 who ever lived." Jeter was a first-ballot Hall of Famer, not "The Greatest Ever."
Just call Jeter a Hall of Famer, as Edgar was, and leave it at that. It helps both that they:
- Played their whole careers in one uniform
- Got a lot of "black ink" (led the league in USA Today-type stats)
- Were soft-spoken and classy (and therefore slowly accumulated massive respect)
...
It's funny, because at BJOL there was just a question asking whether Jeter ranks as one of the greatest Americans ever ... George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Harriet Tubman, Derek Jeter. The asker could not have been more serious.
Derek Jeter never hit me right; he always rankled me as being just a little bit made-for-TV. Just a few generations ago, his lifestyle would have been regarded "irresponsible" at the very kindest. He was hardly the kind of guy to cut the Yankees a hometown discount. His refusal to move off of shortstop for ARod, when ARod was age 28, firmly declared Jeter's priorities as to personal goals vs. victory.
Jeter sending a different girl home every morning, with the big fat hairy magnanimous gesture of a fruit basket in the back seat of the limo for her ... in Manhattan they think, "I wish I was Jeter!" in ESPN studios they believe Derek Jeter is the pinnacle of all this life is about, or can be about.
Dr. D has a daughter, the age of a Jeter groupie. From my office, as opposed to from Manhattan, I see Jeter's philosophical principles as vaguely nauseating. See the last paragraph below!
So personally, I never had an inkling for him. But you can see how Yankees fans would swoon.
...
At BJOL, there is a free article by Dave Fleming. It asks what Derek Jeter says about us. (Tell me what heroes a culture has, and I'll tell you a lot about that culture.) Derek Jeter, says Fleming, is THE most iconic player of his generation, absolutely the #1 representative of baseball the last twenty years.
Dave observes that Warren Spahn was the icon for the post-WWII generation -- the hard fight for stability, security, consistency, in the face of the new Nuclear Threat. 1950's America didn't want to be edgy; it wanted to hold on tight to what it had, as long as it could.
Joe DiMaggio, suggests Dave, represented a generation of immigrants who badly wanted to fit in here. Who wanted to conform to that which was most basically American.
He has a thought-provoking list going.
...
Leaving Derek Jeter where?
According to Fleming, the America of the last 20 years has become dangerously polarized. One manifestation of this is the "gross excess" in baseball salaries. Baseball stars no longer make 10 times what we do, like Johnny Bench did. They now make 500 times what we do. Nobody is friends with someone who makes 500 times what they do. How do you split the check at a restaurant? You can't. Resentments are impossible to avoid; you go hang with your own crowd.
EVERY article about Jeter is on the North Pole or the South Pole. EVERY article tries to pull him down, or push him up higher. This mirrors America in 2014, where we talk AT each other rather than WITH each other. There are two huge echo chambers in America. It could easily lead to civil war.
He "fit our age of division and anxiety." We like to argue viciously. Jeter was the baseball player around which this could be done.
So says Fleming.
We note also that Jeter comes from Central Headquarters of the Blue States. He's a Hunger Games icon. It's important for ESPN, which comes out of New York, to feel its self-validation through the athletes it is proudest of. If your baseball heroes are bogus, what does that say about your life?
;- )
I don't know if Jeter is "bogus." I know that it would be bogus to put him on Mt. Rushmore; that kind of pap says something about us. But as baseball players of his generation go, he was pretty cool.
Warm regards,
Jeff
Comments
I look at his stats, and I say, 'OK, Hall of Fame worthy'. No slam dunk.
But on every other level, I just don't care about him one way or another. Perhaps an added benefit for living in the upper left corner.
Which is a lot more focused than mine ...
.......
1. That's a great point about the defense. Can you imagine sportswriters of the 1950's, dealing with a bat-first shortstop. And the thing about refusing to move off SS .... :: ouch :: Hey Matt. Did the Yankees ever broach the subject with Jeter, do you know? Or was it ARod and Boras only?
2. What a great line: New York LOVES self-centered people as long as they're not in your face about it.
here are some headlines from around the Web. No, there will not be links:
"Final View of Derek Jeter at Short: A Sight to Behold" N.Y. Times
"Yankees Captain Derek Jeter Does it the Old Fashioned Way" In-Depth
"Derek Jeter's Storybook Sendoff Causes Stir in Social Media" Wall Street Journal
"Favorite Derek Jeter Memories from my Years on the Beat" CBS
and it goes on and on and on.
___________________________________________________________________
One of the best parts about 2015 is we will be living in the Jeter free era, one where Jeter doesn't dominate the storylines and the baseball consciousness. Its one thing to have a Derek Jeter night in New York where the Yankees fans pay their respects to a a favorite ball player.
Its quite another to have a Derek Jeter farewell season, where we have Derek Jeter night in Safeco, and Houston, and most of the other cities, plus 81 Derek Jeter nights in Yankee Stadium.
This Jeter thing went stale in April.
There are many players, who are better and more inspiring than Jeter that aren't being treated like this. How about Ichiro? This could be his last year too. Does he opt for a season of Ichi-Love?
_____________________________________________________________________
Jeter's life might be hard to relate to, but many people would show significant flaws in their psyche if they were blessed with inordinate wealth and influence. That is, a person's flaws would show if he were influental enough for people to look at him. Jeter's sexual proclivities are not uncommon, but most men like him lack the influence to make it happen.
Money can be dangerous. I've seen some previously poor people come into large amounts of money, and it doesn't always turn out well for them. Money means that you don't have to work and can indulge your hobbies full time. If your hobbies are scuba diving or photography, or helping out at the soup kitchen, a grip of money probably won't hurt you. If your hobbie is smoking meth so you can stay up later and drink more alcohol, or taking pills and wine in your hot tub, then too much money might kill you.
Many of us wouldn't expose well if we were put under bright lights. But, it makes the truly classy players, the Roberto Clementes and Jon Lesters of the world, that much more special.
Jeter's life might be hard to relate to, but many people would show significant flaws in their psyche if they were blessed with inordinate wealth and influence.
....
My whole career is (supposed to be) about helping people overcome short-term temptation so that they can experience long-term well being. But those who are -- for the moment -- experiencing that well-being, 80% or 90% of the time assume that it's because they are simply better human beings than those who have shot themselves in the foot.
"Normalize" the temptations and access for everybody, as though you were "normalizing" ERA for ballpark, and let's see how we all do in terms of living up to our ideals. Let a Hollywood mogul offer us, or our daughters, a big-money movie deal and see whether we come home from Hollywood alive...
Thanks Counselor.
And that is why they created this ridiculously overblown Jeter Farewell Tour in every city. Jeter is the only real nationally marketable baseball player - because the average male baseball fan thinks of Jeter as a likeable guy and a graceful winner (in baseball and life), and the average female baseball fan has a crush on him. So he's broadly acceptable to all. And thus no one really objects to the traveling circus. I'll be glad when it's over, but I guarantee the marketing team of MLB will not :)
I don't have anything against Derek Jeter. He's been a great player and I don't really care about his oversexed lifestyle. It's just not on my radar. But this farewell tour around the league thing where every city has to honor the guy, it's a bit nauseating and shame on the rest of the league for agreeing to it.
For most of his career he was a day in and day out really good hitter, who played a glove position. He made big plays at the right time (giving him a reputation as a big guame guy and a winner....deserved or not). The fascination with every honey he was dating is not his fault....blame the media and shallow fans for that one....not him.
He was clean (for all we know), was well-liked(for all we know) by everyone except A. Rodriguez (which is a good recommendation for Derek), and played on the biggest stage in sport without wilting.
He surely didn't hit like Edgar...but he was a very fine player for a very long time.
Long time lurker here. I follow from Saint Louis, but grew up in Auburn and am a lifelong Ms fan. Love the site and the great, intellectual back and forth. I'm a professional philosopher, so it draws me in. :)
I wanted to comment on this thread because I had a great experience as a kid that highlights how Edgar was the opposite of what Jeter is. I'm in 6th grade or so, and I'm at an Ms game in the Kingdom. After the game, the players leave through an exit to the parking lot where kids wait just outside the barriers to try to get player autographs. A few of the players will walk slowly along the lines signing autographs for whoever wants one. Then there was Griffey, probably like 19 or 20 at the time. He walks quickly through the line signing a few cards but not looking at anyone. I try to get him to sign my Griffey, Jr. Fleer rookie card, but no luck. No big deal; I'm sure he's got places to go. He wasn't mean or anything, just not generous. (I've never tried to get Jeter's autograph, but I would guess he would be like Griffey was.)
After feeling disappointed, I'm walking away from the line, and back about 30 yards or so from the line there's a little grassy hill, outside the barricades with all the fans, where you could stand in the shade and sort of look down on the whole affair. Up there I spot two young Latinos; they look like maybe they're players. I sheepishly walk up to them and ask if they are players. They nod their heads. They have a smile that's *almost* a smirk as they watch the whole scene, as if they think the whole affair of this young Kid with all the kids trying to get autographs is a bit silly. Too bad I couldn't speak Spanish. They were just hanging out and no doubt would have been willing to shoot the breeze. I didn't have cards of them, so I asked them to sign my hat. No hesitation, they gave me their autographs, and continued to just hang out in the midst of the fans. As I walked back to the line, I read the signatures: Omar Visquel and Edgar Martinez.
Man I wish I still had that hat.