Editor's Choice, 11.8.14
New readers arise to baffle the Mainframe

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Some neat comments were buried in the pool filter.  Gotta sign in, guys, if you want to sidestep the weeding process :- )

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J.B. Kawika sez,

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I worry that the M's just irreparably broke him.  When they called him up so soon. it seemed irresponsible then and even more so now, I think it speaks pretty badly of front office that they let it happen.

However, I do buy that in addition to not being ready Zunino was catching too many games last year too. The M's really need to break camp this year with somebody who they'll feel comfortable starting waaaay more than Buck ever did in addition to having a plan for what happens if Zubibo is hitting .180 in June

But this front office has never shown itself to be particularly adept at having backup plans in place so I look forward to much gnashing of teeth and lamentations "that no one could have expected him to crater like this" when Zunino is still flailing away hopelessly next year.

He's the single projected starter that I'm most pessimistic about going into next year.

- See more at: http://seattlesportsinsider.com/article/all-kindsa-gainz#sthash.U2MJblzm...

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Tempting enough to come up with counters, which others did.  But an interesting question looms:  supposing you do call up a young star much too quickly.  To what extent might you retard his hitting development?

Here is one of my favorite Jeff Sullivan articles, which so happens to be on this topic.  And two other points:

(1) Skipping a kid from 2nd-grade math to 11th-grade can "bust" him, yeah.  If you're confused by a page of text, you are confused for one basic reason:  there was something, earlier on, that you skipped past, and didn't get.  Life lessons, grasshopper.  Take things 1 at a time, and you can build a rocket ship.  Some people might take longer than others, is all.

(2) Bill James proverb:  The best, and the only, place, to learn to play major league baseball is in the major leagues.

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Sonic Doom, er, Boom, sez in the Carlos Rivero thread,

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Hey- I think the M's picked up a scouting report on our latest signing from the Cardenales de Lara, and concluded that it's worth taking a flier on his power. We're looking for RH bats that hit HRs, right?! Nobody has hit more HRs in the VWL this year than our man Carlos! (Check it out...) http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=l_bat&sid=l135&lid=135 - See more at: http://seattlesportsinsider.com/article/who-or-what-carlos-rivero#sthash...

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A Bret Boone scenario?!   Rivero has a nice even 1 OPS in Venezuela.  

(As we all know, .999... is the same thing as 1.  My favorite proof:  10x 0.9999... minus 9x 0.9999.... leaving 1x = 1.0000 ...)

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eknpdx sez in the Gappiness on the 2014 Orcs thread,

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An article relevant to this discussion is at  http://ken.arneson.name/2014/11/10-things-i-believe-about-baseball-witho...

Specifically:

  • #8: Diversity is Good for Batting Lineups
  • #9: A lineup without holes scores runs exponentially, not linearly

But every point, well maybe except #10, is a worthy read.

- See more at: http://seattlesportsinsider.com/article/gappiness-2014-orcs#sthash.lm1dh...

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Thanks, Mr. Mxyzptlk!

Cheers,

Dr D

 

Blog: 

Comments

1

I missed the comment about line-ups scoring runs exponentially when they are without gaps...but that absolutely confirms my belief that we need to score offense NON-linearly for individual players.,..accounting for their performance above and below the "super-margin" and the margin. If you are really...REALLY good you are causing a "gap" in the other team...if you are really...really bad...you are creating a gap in your own team and robbing other players of the chance to produce non-linearly as in this article.
I'm telling you folks...that is the number one problem with WAR.

2

...what happens when a pitcher is really bad? He raises everyone's OPS in a line-up by (say) .100. If you take a typical team with three gaps and 3 stars and 3 mediocre players...you will turn the gaps into regulars, the regulars into stars and the stars into beasts. Now the line-up with gaps becomes a line-up without gaps. Leading to non-linear scoring. Do you see why we need to account for the super-margin in great players as well as the margin (non-linearly) in bad ones?

3

Is really great. Matt I know the the idea of offense being non linear ties in with what you've been looking at lately but I'd really curious to hear your thoughts about his larger point...
Pretty much all sabremetrics (or at least the publicly available stuff) these days is based on the idea that baseball is made up of a series discrete events that we treat as independent of one another. But that's probably not true. Sequencing matters but we don't have the tools to really study and understand it. Because the database tools everybody uses look at individual events devoid of context, that's how we think about them. Even though there's probably some very important stuff buried in all those circumstances.
Arneson compares it Newtonian physics, it'll get you most of the way there and there's some important stuff in there but it doesn't capture the full reality of things.
The whole essay is fascinating and well worth everybody's time. Probably the best thing I've read about baseball in six months.
Some great thoughts about roster construction too. The idea that a lineup should be composed of different types of hitters makes a lot of intuitive sense to me.

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Actually, Doc, you need to get more flying miles. PDX is Portland to the airlines - so, he's probably E.K.N. in Portland.
Joe Btfsblk, however, lives in Dogpatch, still, I hope. I do note that he used to be in Head and Shoulders ads - which are now done by C.J. Wilson and Josh Hamilton. Coincidence? I think not. Head and Shoulders ads now rank with an SI cover for jinx effect.
As to Mr. Mxyzptlk!, let's hope he stays away from our soon-to-be-super-Mariners as well!

6

It superbly underscores the inability of current publicly available models to adequately address the complexities of baseball. Intuitively we have suspected this is true, and we might have been able to illustrate some of our suspicions, but the article lays bare a fundamental oversight in the approach of those who merely adopt and parrot the ideas of those who have gone before. It also shows that sometimes managers may intuitively know more than we think they do.
It seems to me that not only are events within a single game are not both discrete and independent, but there are additional complexities in the histories of certain teams against other teams, certain batters against certain pitchers, and even in the day after day life of individual players. These are things managers are much more in tune with, things we have little or no access to. One can heap up complexities even more if one wants to. Suppose one player plays better in certain types of weather/climate than others?

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I don't think I should post comments in response to this article...this is too important and too similar to my own basic thinking...I think I should take this article apart piece by piece in a feature article...so be ready to promote the article to viewable status when it appears.

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It's been my handle since insidethepark.com and Seattle P-I days.
As for the article, I emailed the author with a thank you and opined much of his insight touched on the subject of an appropriate methodology on the study of the mysterious " line-up protection" debate.
For my educational background, I found the current ongoing argument of line-up protection to be focused on a results based analysis. Personally, I think the concept is best to be evaluated as a "tactical advantage."
That is to mean does having a diverse line-up create a tactical advantage not just during the at-bat, but a ripple affect on the game, the next game, the series, or a set of series, etc?
In symbolic interaction school of sociology there's a phenomenon called "self fulfilling prophecy." In short, when a group of people all believe something to be true (ex. The guy with the hot hand at the craps table) they harmonize a group expected outcome that has real consequences. The collective belief in line-up protection can be viewed in the same manner.
That would indicate managers and players base tactical decisions on line-up protection, leading to it having an affect on the game. So to examine the affect of line-up protection could also be measured, say by, bullpen management for the rest of the series and how that goes on to affect the next series. So line-up protection could have more of an effect on the team not equipped to deal with a strong diverse line-up in the wins and losses column over 162 games.
The author replied that he didn't concern himself with the current line-up debate, but agreed there could be a more methodologically sound way to understand the concept. Of which focused more on game theory - of course.
I agree with the comment that this was the most enjoyable read on baseball in a long time.

9

You finally shamed me into trying to register but it keeps telling me that it can't send me an email with my password and to contact the site administrator so... I'm not sure how to proceed.

10

Hopefully you're kidding about the "shame" - I'm glad to be the weed-er if you're glad to be the weed-ee.  But on the off chance you do wish to proceed (old Die Hard joke), I've sent your Q to my boss.
Cheers,
Jeff

11

I kinda suspected the PDX part, but you've probably read enough to realize there is no way --- > I'm going to resist saying the first thing that comes into my head.  Your initials reminded me of Mxyzptlk, boom.  The "groaner" is published and there's little you will ever be able to do about it.
......
More seriously, I couldn't agree more about self-fulfilling prophecy and "the observer effect."  Hey, if we can change the fate of a photon by looking at it, you're telling me we can't get inside Erasmo Ramirez' head enough to make him throw ball one?   ;- )
 

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