So's You Can Shout
Thursday morning Tazoberry, Dept.

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BPJ sez,

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This site desperately needs a forum. It's my favorite site to read and comment, but the Shoutbox doesn't appear to be effective and the topics that get comments die down because they slide down the page.

If SSI had a forum where we could read/post thread topics, you couldn't drag me outta here.

All these comments going on an Aiki Mechanics thread because it's just the easiest way to find new comments, for example..

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Forwarded, amigo.  As y'know, (1) Dr. Detecto live to serve and (2) he just serves here.  Though he loves comments threads, he sympathizes with y'all's longing for the front page Shout Box. Give it up, in your angst, for Klat that (as far as we can tell) initiated the concept of a Shout Box Above the Fold.

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Fifty -- fifty! -- substantive posts under the Aiki-Segura thread, most or all having nothing whatsoever to do with the estimable Jean Segura, who just now had a SS hitting season that exceeds the two men to his left and right in the infield.  (!?)

So we'll re-boot.  Fresh Dr. D shtick coming Thursday around lunchtime.  In the meantime this comments area lays down some new-blown snow for the Denizens.

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EDWIN DIAZ

G-Moneyball sez,

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So we can release the Kraken.  I don't expect that to happen this year.  Our Chris Sale experiment will have to wait at least another year, but at least we'll have a closer.

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Love, love, love Gordon's consistent plumping for the "internal promotion" of Chris Archer to the rotation.  Of course you could get a Mark Melancon type to replace Diaz for 1/3 the price it would cost you to get a Chris Archer on the open market.  Of course if you have a Chris Archer, Roger Clemens or Tom Seaver you are not going to move him to the bullpen even if he retired every batter he ever faced.  :- )

But Dipoto does believe that Edwin Diaz' 98 MPH in the bullpen translates to 93 MPH, only two pitches (sic!), in the rotation and -- from an intuitive standpoint -- it looks to me at the moment like you've got a "promising starter" versus a "superstar closer."  As Mariano, K-Rod, Lee Smith, Goose Gossage, Troy Percival, John Wetteland, Robb Nen, Jason Isringhausen, etc., looked really good in a vacuum ... but Eyes Wide Shut in the 9th inning.

Could be wrong,

jemanji

Blog: 

Comments

1

MLBT-R projects Fowler to sign in the 4yr/$64M neighborhood.

So what is the value of a great glove COF who leads-off or bats second behind Segura?  For his career, Fowler has a .367 OBP batting lead-off.

Oh...one who has run oWAR of 3.8-2.4-3.7-3.5-4.1 over the past 5 years. Clockwork, man.

Then* I'm offering Martin + a young arm to St. Louis for Lance Lynn, fresh off TJ surgery.  

Do all that, and I'm loaded for bear.  BTW, Martins "2nd Half slump" last season was no such thing.  He hit for a higher average in the 2nd half (.251 vs. .243) and his BABIP was higher (.320-.305).  The only difference was that his  11 homers (unsustainable) and just 6 doubles in the first half turned into a normal 4 HR's and 11 doubles in the 2nd half.  The result was a perfectly clockwork 90-ish OPS+ guy in Martin.

Even if Haniger (likely) or Gamel didn't work out in CF you could just roll Fowler back into the middle.

I would rather have a near-.370 OBP guy (.393 last season) at the top of the order than Martin's glove in CF.  What does Martin arb at this year?  $9-$10M?  Fowler is only a few pennies more.

If only St. Louie would cooperate!!  

I'm done.

* I'm pretty confident that O'Neill gets RF soon enough this season.  That mostly doesn't change my Fowler-lust, at all.

 

2

but would like to point out that Haniger is ahead of O'Neill.   O'Neill, Fowler, Haniger later this year?  Or is it O'Neill, Haniger Fowler?

Same ideas fit for the Cutch acquisition, re-suggested in the Segura thread.  I can't see why the Pirates would trade him for what we can offer though.

Still would like to see a high OBP slick glove OF acquired for #1/2 in the order and Fowlers handedness adds to the great fit.  Not too worried about Cutch being RH facing RHP anyway.  Around .400 OBP says he can produce no matter what side the pitcher throws from.  .360 some last year, same deal anyway.  I'd bet against McCutchen hearing here except that I remember the Lee acquisition (we've certainly got comparable pieces to that) and Dipoto makes so many moves that it's not feeling as safe to bet against.  He may be happy with this OF mix anyway and no longer concerned with the top of the order after acquiring Segura/Haniger.  Those 2 could be #1/2 in June anyway. 

3

I'm more interested in watching JeDi at work than trying to generate my own roster ideas. (Not that I've completely stopped the latter, you understand - just a shifting of priorities). If you know me at all, that probably shocks you.

4
Seattle Sports Outsider's picture

Cosign Doc's initiative to keep Diaz as the closer. Remember Mariano Rivera? I do. Remember the Yankees 4th and 5th starters during their World Series runs? I don't.

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tjm's picture

Hey Doc - Off point. Did you change your email from the comcast address? I've tried contacting several times with no success. Could you drop me a line at tjm99@msn.com? Thx.

7

If Diaz had EVER had problems with health or stamina or late-game performance.  He hasn't - he just LOOKS more fragile, as a couple of other great starters have.  But DiPoto had a need and he filled it with Diaz. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but when the Ms tell us they just don't have the money for a good starter I'll once again be asking if they have the money for a good reliever, so that the starter we have closing for us can get into the rotation.

Until then, I'll keep enjoying the sight of Diaz overwhelming the opposition - as Sale did, and Archer would have. There are worse things.

At least we didn't trade him!

8

No news on whether anybody is interested in signing him. I still think it is curious that the Ms announced when Brian Hunter was promoted to coach at Tacoma that Pat Listach would have 3 assistants in 2017 rather than the previously customary 2. And since then ... nada. I'm thinking they've offered Guti the hitting coach job, maybe as a player/coach, and everyone is just waiting for FA signings to pick up to make a final decision. If it's in Guti's court -- c'mon Franklin, do it! 

Franklin has been known for his preparation and dedication. Rub a bit off on Haniger/Gamel/Heredia/O'Neill/et al.

9
The Other Billy Zoom's picture

Moe, I hear ya.

The Cardinals seem to have 8 starters.

A week ago I was all in on a one for one, L. Martin for Jaime Garcia.

While Garcia had only a year left before F/A I viewed him as he arm to punch in near the top of the M's rotation.

Now, I seriously doubt they will trade him until the deadline nears.

They didn't have to make a QO and are more "flexible", and they will get a better deal if they wait until just before the deadline ... and, if they are in (or near) the lead for the postseason, they might just hang onto him.

Now I'm offering a straight one for one  ... L. Martin for Alex Reyes who bought the espresso stand when he got a cup of coffee.

Cards have 24 pitchers on their 40 man ... but they are in serious need of a CF.

Yeah, they might sign Fowler, but so might others and others and others.

Right now Martin is a sell high, and I watched DePoet's voice (I couldn't see his eyes through his sun glasses) as the river was coming up in his latest hold-em game.

The Big River.

No, they probably will not trade Reyes, but ...

After this action which could be consumated very shortly, I am back to MC CLUTCH, if the Washington's have not picked him up.

The "deal" is suposedly down to a top 5 prospect and another prospect and all the argument about him staying in Pirateville seems to suggest he is already half way out the window.  I'm giving up Gohara and S. Smih (who can hold down a corner outfield until Austin Meadows is  ready, which should be very soon, leaving Starling Marte in CF and Polanco out there) without any hesitation.

And if S. Smith doesn't do it for them, I deal Volksburger and Gohara.

No, not many realistic trade chips left.

But I can still do an around-the-world with the right yo-yo.

zoom

 

 

10

Straight up for Reyes is good by me.  Maybe Luke Weaver, too.  I think I posted that a bit ago.

Get Reyes and then you have the Reyes-Povse-Whelan-Moore Sweepstakes!  I like the odds that a couple fo those guys (or better) turn out pretty nice!

11

"Now I seriously doubt they will trade (Garcia)"

*SpongeBob SquarePants panel* Two. Hours. Later. */SpongeBob SquarePants Panel*

The Cardinals have agreed to trade Jamie Garcia to the Braves in exchange for three players.

*cue Price is Right loser horn*

:)  I kid...but I found it hilarious

12

I'm still hanging on to Martin, taking my chances that one or more of the low-budget and near-ready pitchers we are accumulating can contribute. However- I'm "all over" Smith + one of our young arms- even (gulp) Gohara- in exchage for McCutcheon. Furthermore, I'm much happier to pay $14M p.a. for McCutcheon on a two-year commitment than $16M p.a. for Fowler on a 4-year commitment. (Make sense? Agreed?!)

13

1.  Get McCutcheon and I would still trade Martin for Lance Lynn or Reyes/Weaver (were the Cards so amiable).. So that's a No. Our biggest/clearest/magnum-sized need is a TOR arm.  I'm making that swap out first.  Will say that I do not think we're adding a COF, but I enjoy the speculation. Butit appears that we are adding another MLB arm.  Fister doesn't excite me much...have said so.  Lance Lynn would be spiffy. Will add this:  I just (sigh!) figured out that Lynn is a FA in '18.  Hmmmm.....that changes the issue a bit.

2.  Trade Smith and Gohara for McCutcheon?  Count me in. That's a yes (see below), especially if we've added a young St. Louie arm, to balance the Gohara loss.   Weaver or Reyes and McCutcheon balances Gohara and Martin.  Will say this:  Reyes had the better MLB line last year, but I find Weaver at least as interesting. Maybe more so.  He's a former !st Round (#27) pick and his MiLB numbers have been stellar.  A Povse-Whelan-Moore-Weaver Kiddy Corps, knocking down the door is just wonderful in my eyes. I think you could get Weavre for Martin.  I also think the Cards are going to make a play for Sale.  They just traded Garcia.  Here's Weaver.  92-93 with the heater, works up and down really well.  His change is 82 and a weapon.  If St. Louis makes a play for Sale, we can get Weaver.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdaixYEhFJU

3. Would likely take two years of McCutcheon over 4 of Fowler. So that's a probable...but likely. Would consider.  The problem is the loss of Gohara forthe one and not the other.  Worth considering.  And of course, whether Pitts. will trade McCutcheon for what we have to offer. 

14

In my opinion, you push all your chips in now.

Now that Repchinski has signed, our best chances at improving are over Gamel and Starting Pitcher.

1) My first call would be to Aroldis Chapman's agent to see if he's trying to pursue starting again. If he is, offer him a backloaded 5 year $100 million contract with an opt out after 2 or 3 years. He may actually only want a 1 or 2 year deal so he has an opportunity at a $200 million payday next offseason as a proven SP. We slot him in as our #5 SP to stretch him out. If it doesn't work, you have a Two Headed Monster in the bullpen. What a tragedy, right.

2) Carlos Beltran at 2 years $12.5M per year to push Gamel to AAA. Beltran had an .850 OPS last season. Did Gamel do that at any point even in the minors?

Neither of them have Qualifying Offers attached. Double bonus.

Let Gamel, O'neill and Heredia roam AAA.The majority of our young talent has 2 options left. Use them. Gamel's numbers in the minors aren't impressive. He hasn't earned anything. Especially on a contender.

In my opinion, we need to keep the top of our minor league system stuffed down. Don't force guys like Luiz Gohara and Ben Gamel to come up until they force the issue. Many good teams have guys blocked for a year or two at AAA. Since when is that a problem?

Is Gamel going to blow our socks off in 2017? I doubt it. If he's not going to be good, he should never set foot out there again. Unless Beltran gets hurt. Then, show us what you've got kid. Play well enough to make sending you back to AAA not an option.

We currently have no proven talent at the MLB level even above average in the outfield. Year after year we think we're ok in the outfield going into the season. They need to put some actual proven talent out there in a year like this. 

This team hasn't earned the luxury of us letting them off the hook easy for going into the season again with these unproven rookies everywhere. Even 1B. Again. 

This wreaks of a situation where Geoff Baker would rip the team a new one for trying to go into another year counting on guys like Gamel, Maranda and Vogelbach when there was still $25 supposedly available in the budget.

15

Lusting after outfielders is fine.

I'm STRONGLY disposed to JD's statements that left on the list is better starting pitching.

Adherents of Shandler's site know that BPV (Base Player Value) is his bottom line--his version of WAR?

Anyway, the average pitcher in the American League last year was rated as 85 in this metric.

Here are selected values for other starters in our division:

Darvish: 128

McCullers: 120

Keuchel: 109

McHugh: 103

Hamels: 101 (No, I have no idea why this isn't higher)

Now, for the projected BPVs for our rotation:

Kuma: 104

Felix: 92

Paxton: 92

Karns: 81

Miranda: 33

In other words, no ace, and a non-competitive combined score?  

Maybe we need two, and not just one?

16

I'm with you. If the cost to land McCutchen and one of the available starters are roughly the same, then why would you go with the hitter on this squad? The offense is already better than it was in 2016 and offense wasn't the issue this season. The rumored center piece of the Washington-Pittsburgh trade centers around Victor Robles - probably a top ten prospect in all of baseball. The M's don't have anyone that's thought of that high in the minors. 

18

Even if those number are right, upgrading Miranda's 33 is the lowest hanging fruit on the tree. 

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