ESPN Zone
Black Mamba, Dept.

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=== PHX Terry Sez ===

 

"People in the M's org suspect that Jesus Montero's catching is creating teamwide dysfunction." As a guy who deals in tangibles and not intangibles, this statement, for me, raises several questions:

1) What are the concrete on-field effects of this teamwide dysfunction? E.g., players not trying, pitchers making wrong pitches in key situations, poor defensive positioning, baserunning mistakes, etc?
2) What specific actions are being done by Montero to create the dysfunction? E.g., poor pitch calling, poor framing, failure to block pitches in the dirt, poor throws against baserunners, etc? If there specific areas of sub-standard performance, then they should be addressed in an improvement/training program.
3) What is the role of our newly-acquired corps of veteran leaders (Ibanez, Morse, Bay, Shoppach, etc) to mitigate this dysfunction? Shouldn't Raul be sitting Montero down and explaining the "right way" to do things to get the team functional? If Raul can't do this sort of thing, then what good is veteran leadership?
4) Wedge is an ex-catcher. I assume that his leash is fairly short - if the M's don't make .500 this year with an upward trend, I assume his job is in question. I also assume that this dysfunction should be most apparent to him. Shouldn't he be fixing the problem right now, to protect his own job?

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=== Rose Garden, Dept. ===

My son and I drove down I-5 the other night to catch the Lakers vs Blazer game.  Dr. D is glad he bought a black-and-red shirt there, which he is wearing as he types.  If you don't know who we're tributing here, don't bother taking offense.  Tributing these guys is the inner-city equivalent of Kjurkianing.

"Hey, man!  You like this shirt?  Thass' GOOD, man.  Thass' REAL good.

"This is the KOOOObe shirt, man.  This shirt say Blazers on it but Kobe fans can wear it cause he OWN the Blazers.

On this particular evenin' ... Kobe Bryant set an Opposition Reco'd for points scored in their BUILDIN', man.  Know what I'm sayin'?  No other player had ever done as MUCH to defeat the Blazers in they HOUSE.

"Kobe was goin' against a rookie point guard, rookie was on FIRE, man, draining ALL KINDSA threes.  But the kid had to rest SOMEtime.  Kobe played ALL 48 MINUTES that evenin'.  And it was the night after he played 41 in a different CITY.  It was a BACK-TO-BACK GAME, man!  

"Kobe had guar-own-teed that the Lakers would get in the playoffs, know what I'm sayin'?  Magic had said, Lakers win this one, they get IN the PLAYOFFs.  Kobe look at that kid sideways and then ran out there and laid a BEATIN' on him.

Look at the shirt.  Look AT it.  Now RESPECT it."

.............

Funny thing about the warmups.  The other Lakers were making like 80% of their shots.  We once watched Derek Fisher hit 20+ shots in a row, pregame, from the top of the key.  Nothing but net, at least 20, 25 times in a row.

If you don't play basketball, the thing is, the angle of your elbow puts the shot in the center of the hoop.  What you judge, on each shot, is just the distance; the direction is automatic.

Most shooters have one, maybe two, but perhaps one, favorite distances.  Like, the 3-point line and the foul line.  The distance on THOSE shots is automatic too, you know what I'm sayin'?  You shoot 200 times a day from the same distance, you get muscle memory for how hard to flick it up there.  It's a LOT easier than it sounds.

............

In the pregame warmups, the warmup before his 47-point game, Kobe Bryant missed most of his shots.

You have any idea why?  We'll give you a clue:  for one thing, unlike the other players, he never shot from the same distance twice.  For another thing, he was juking imaginary defenders before he shot.  No other Laker was doing that.

The other Lakers were filling it up, pregame.  Kobe was missing a lot of his shots, pregame.  Think about it.  Maybe that had a little something to do with what happened during the game.

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=== Being In the Zone ===

Everybody reading this, 100.00% of readers, understands that there EXISTS a sports phenomenon that we call "Being In The Zone."  Time slows down, focus comes to a hair-fine point, and you can only visualize good things happening.

Is this a tangible?  Or is this an intangible?

............

If you're in the zone, and you square around to bunt on a squeeze play ... you're ready for any pitch, any part of the zone -- like Kobe Bryant being ready to shoot from any spot on the court. Your Zone Vision captures SURPRISES and prepares you to deal with them and still win.

If you're out of the zone, you square around ... hoping against hope that it will be a fastball, knee high.

Why did Brendan Ryan bunt right back to the pitcher?  Life is complex.  We don't know for sure.  We do know that when teams lose 12 games in a row, they hold clubhouse meetings, and the manager throws the buffet table over, and he screams at players to stop fouling up bunts.

.............

I think we've all seen MLB teams play confidently, and teams play without confidence.  

I would imagine there's a boatload of pressure on these guys each night.  From what little sports I've played myself, I can tell you that the difference between confidence, and anxiety, must be hair-fine.  For players at that level.

Is confidence intangible?  Sure it is.  Are you saying that confidence does not affect sports outcomes?  Um...

.............

How might the starting catcher foul up the ballclub's "Zone"?  By creating the expectation of something going wrong, right when it matters most.

Or by catching a series of KO's by his team's young pitchers.

Or by otherwise creating a sense that things are not going to go well.

Sandy wants to know, if the Mariners are not In The Zone this week, why didn't they notice this in August of 2012?  This is my best attempt to explain how that might happen, that a GM not know whether a team will be in The Zone four months from now, or four years from now.

Over the winter, was Jesus Montero going to grow into his role as Team Leader?  Why didn't they know that in August 2012?  Sigh.

.............

Creating a ballclub that is In The Zone is the task faced by Zduriencik and Wedge.  This task might not be as simple as fans think that it is.

I'm not saying that Jesus Montero is doing this, right now, at the moment; I'm asking whether he's doing it, or whether he isn't.

Others have noted that the Mariners were in a pretty good Zone when Dan Wilson was the catcher.  I'm not a Wilson fan, but I've got to acknowledge that seems like an accurate statement.  The moment that Miguel Olivo took over for Wilson, the entire organization went stark raving lunatic in protest.

There is the possibility that Zunino is going to perform a Wilson-like function in Seattle.  Or maybe this entire conversation is barking up the wrong tree. 

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Blog: 

Comments

1

I like baseball (duh), but major league baseball is really angering me. I went to the game last night. Big TV screen, biggest I've ever seen. Think they would use it to show interesting replays? Like a squeeze play? Forget about it. Instead, I crane my head and look at a tiny screen in a box on the second deck, a screen smaller than my iphone. How close did Ibanez get to catching that ball? Who knows? I was at the game, 600 feet away, and I have a giant TV screen telling me to yell charge, or that Brendan Ryan likes Led Zepplin.
Then, bottom of the 7th, and the M's down by 2, and they work to load the bases. Looking good. Texas brings in a lefty to pitch to Ibanez. Heh, we got em right where we want them! Pinch hit Bay. Hah! Screw you Texas! But no, Wedge is the only man in the entire stadium who believes the Raul will do anything other than strike out. Why? He explains in the post game interview that Raul has hit lefties before in clutch situations in the past, and that he "deserved" the chance to do it again. What???? Ok, then by that logic let's bring in Mickey Mantle next time. I watched Ibanez back when he wasn't 100 years old and a top hitter, and I even then I cringed when he faced a lefty in a clutch situation. And yes, every once in a while he would get a hit. Last night? When I wasn't cursing Wedge's name, I was in horror.
No other sport pulls this kind of stunt on me. You mention the Lakers. If the Blazers are going to foul the Lakers, and its imperative that those free throw are made, does Shaquille O'Neil get to stay on the court and get passed the ball because he's proven in the past he can hit a free throw? Does an aging John Abraham, signed by a team to rush the passer, stay in on running downs, because he's proven he can tackle a runner in his past? I see little reason to spend money on a team that places devotion to a player's feelings over winning, and a stadium that won't use it's monstrous TV for the only thing it's really useful for. I'll stay home, and watch for free.
I love baseball, but I don't get the culture. I loved Buhner. But when we were one game away from being eliminated from a possible World Series appearance, Piniella (who guaranteed we'd return to Seattle) put an aging Jay Buhner to start in right field, because it's his last game as a Mariner. I don't. I thank him for his service, and do what gives me the absolute best chance of winning in a crucial moment. Every other sport does that. When Edgar was a shell of his former self, the Mariners continued to send him on the field hitting cleanup. Why? Because Edgar was the best cleanup hitter we could put out there? No. It was because he deserved it. We lost game after game after game that season, in large part because Edgar deserved to be in the lineup and hit cleanup. I'm supposed to pay for that?
And now, after we go out of our way to sign an old ballplayer who's only real skill he has left is to hit right handers, we send him in to hit against a left hander, in a clutch situation, because "he deserves it". Well, what about us long suffering fans? What do we deserve? We deserve to buy Seahawk tickets. We deserve to buy Husky Basketball tickets, because at Hec Ed, every interesting play and controversy is replayed on the big screen. For some reason, Pac 12 officials and college students can handle whatever it is that Major league professionals don't deserve.
Wedge, you are supposed to be able to handle "men". But the only players around here who actually get "handled" are the kids.

2

Doc - Appreciate your response as always. The light just went on in my head when Drago and you compared the M's teams with Wilson at catcher to the teams with Johjima/Johnson/Olivo as catcher. What great examples to illustrate the point of an entire team being on edge due to the play of the starting catcher. I get it -- if Montero is having the same effect as Olivo, then, yes, I understand that the entire team's mental approach could be affected. I know how I was affected watching games when Olivo was catching -- "something" just wasn't right. Thanks for drilling down on the issue and thanks to Drago for his comment.

3

Professional sports is WAY intangible.
What makes Tom Brady, Tom Brady? I have ideas....but mostly it is something that is beyond actual definition.
There is an "It Factor" that we try to describe, but do so only at a superficial level.
How do you describe "focus" in measureable terms? How do you quantify the Nicklaus calm, the Tiger stare or the Arnie elan?
Good luck.
But all that stuff is real. Nebulous maybe, but dang real.
Does Montero not have something, can't have something, that keeps him from calling the one wrong pitch each inning? How would you know? 5 or 6 times a game he would get away with it. How would you know?
And if that intangible exists, but can't be quantified, for players.......why not managers, too?
Barring an injury, this will soon be Zunino's team in many ways. Does he have "It?" Indications are he has something in that neighborhood, anyway.
For all we know, Montero isn't missing anything. But sometimes a golfer changes putters because he needs to look at something different. It's stupid guys, but it works.
Sometime this season, Zunino will be our new putter. Montero will go to the garage (or DH).
You know what? There will be nothing particularly different and worthy of Sports Center notice when he's behind the plate but he will be our new putter and balls will start rolling into the hole.
And when that happens you start saying, "Where's the first tee and what's the course record?"
Go team.
moe
BTW: Rick, there is great depth in this line, "Wedge, you are supposed to be able to handle "men". But the only players around here who actually get "handled" are the kids."
Well done.

4

The money quote: "Wedge, you are supposed to be able to handle "men". But the only players around here who actually get "handled" are the kids." Ibanez gets paid $2.7M to do what he's told by his manager. Why Wedge would sacrifice the best chance to win a critical game on the altar of a veteran's feelings is beyond me, too. And BTW, the way these talented kids are hitting once they reach the major leagues indicates that Wedge is "man-handling" them, not "handling" them.

5

I will cheerfully acknowledge that the best years in the history of the Mariner franchise were also the Lou Pinella years. Sweet Lou only 3 losing seasons in his 10 as M's field boss.
Obviously, Lou (and the massive young talent base that he walked in to) was a HUGE part of the reason for the M's winning culture in this era. One of Lou's greatest managerial talents was looking around at the available players and saying, "THAT ONE," and being right. That being said, Dan Wilson was the catcher that Lou hand picked after having seen him in action in Cincinnati.
It may even be that the unique synergy between Lou and Dan simply amplified and reinforced the consistent message of playing smart, hard-nosed, baseball day-in and day-out.

6

That light just went on for me this morning, so I had to share.
Thanks for the props. More importantly, thanks to Dr. D for laying out the breadcrumbs that I followed to the light switch.

7

That was the first basketball game I've seen in person since the 1993 playoffs when the Sonics played the Suns. The officiating was so bad that I've maybe watched 20 minutes of basketball since that series ended. Literally, the last game of the 1993 playoff series had 100 free throws - 64 for the Suns and 36 for the Sonics.
Basketball's an interesting game where one person can really dominate a game. Even from the second level it was obvious who the best player on the court was. Even when Kobe didn't have the ball or score, he drew so much focus from the Blazers. On every time out the Lakers looked to Kobe for moral support or whatever reason. I'm not sure if all NBA games are like that, but that game was really Kobe vs. Lillard with other guys taking up space.
Baseball is such a different game. I'm trying to think of position players who really rule a team like Kobe does. Jeter is that guy. Ripken in his prime. Super Barry Bonds. Junior never seemed like that to me. Pujols in St. Louis? Chipper Jones? Ichiro in Japan? Buster Posey? I'm sure some of the guys who remember baseball before the mid-80's could pull out more names.
There are a few guys and they are hardest man to find. I'd say that's true no matter what sport or job. Good, true leaders are hard to find. The good news for Seattle fans is that Russell Wilson is here for the next 15 years.

8
SeattleNative57's picture

The importance of a baseball team's starting catcher cannot be underestimated. It is the most important position on the field, including the pitcher. He is essentially the game manager, he sets the tone. Granted, the pitcher and other position players must execute the plays to be successful. But it is the catcher who puts everything in motion. It is no coincidence that catchers are the position which migrates to manager over all others. And they tend to be the most successful managers. Why? Good ones are laser-focused on the game. They have to think ahead. They manage the pitchers, they control the teams defense. Their ability to block pitches and throw out runners picks up their teammates, as well as controlling the other team. I think it's fair to say they are the mood of their team. Catchers who lack the skills to lead a team and who have below-average defense impact negatively the mood of their team. Some of it is trust and a lot of it is respect. I sense (intangibly) that this team lacks respect for Montero. And tangibly, what has he done to earn their respect. Not much. He doesn't catch well, doesn't throw well, has little rapport with the pitchers, appears immature in his behavior (which might be overlooked if he were a more skillful catcher) and has not hit consistently (also might be mitigated with better catching performance). Obviously I am not in the clubhouse and can only observe from a distance. However, I see little evidence of leadership from Jesus Montero. Things being what they are, I anxiously await the promotion of Mike Zunino and hope that he will open a new era of Mariners baseball. It's a tall order, but one he seems prepared to perform. Moving Montero aside to DH and backup catcher may improve his outlook as well. Removing Montero from a position of leadership will probably suit him just fine.

9

For some reason, that obvious point had never really hit me, till you mentioned it Native.
Sciosia's my pick for best overall manager in recent years, and his catching orientation really bleeds through to his brainy on-hands style.  There's Girardi, Melvin...Torre of course... Bochy ... Lessee who am I forgetting ;- )

11
SeattleNative57's picture

Although I'm sure you didn't forget him ... just an oversight.

12
GLS's picture

With Zunino, I just worry that he hasn't struggled yet. That's it really.

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