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Bat571 and Billy Zoom are impressively un-impressed by the Think Tank's tirade against the Tank deal. Winning a minors argument against G-Money (and Dr. D among others) is about as easy as taking down Johnny Cochrane in open court, but ... Bat571 sez
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If you look at his Brooks Baseball player card, it looks as though he was still sorting out his release point in '14. As he did, his velocity crept up. The Cardinals used him against the Dodgers and Giants in that post-season, so somebody saw something.
So, we got a TJ-recovering southpaw who was considered a top prospect when his release point was all over the place. We gave up a guy who *might* become a regular OF, but also might be the next Rob Deer. To me, that isn't that bad a trade when the inventories of the two teams are considered.
Marco is just getting to the point where TJ guys are getting their feel and velocity in hand. He didn't pitch in April, and didn't have a good May. Since June 18th, when the Cards sent him back to Memphis after using him in a double-header: 5G, 5W, 32IP, 34K, 7BB, 7R/ER, 22Hits, 2HR, 3HBP. That looks to me like he's coming around and Jerry Dipoto said "NOW!" -----> 34 Ks and 7 BBs in 32 IP -- is that controlling the zone? 22 Hits in 32 IP --- is that limiting damage?
... In the 2014 post-season, he made some pretty good Dodger hitters sit down, then didn't do quite as well in his 3rd game against the Giants. But he pitched in 5 games without getting scored on, before the Giants scored 3 on a hit and a walk in the 6th postseason game he pitched - and that just over a year after pitching for Gonzaga. There's some skill and moxie there - I guess that's what I saw that I really like: the moxie to simply go at guys even knowing you're overmatched. Do we have any other pitchers who are 2-1 in postseason play?
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Zoom has also insisted on these very points. Also on the defense table's side of the deal is Diderot, who correctly notes Leonys Martin and Boog Powell as important #5-6 outfielders in our system. Self-appointed SSI king-priest Dr. D is forced to rule all of this Marco evidence as admissible:
√ The real question on a lefty with Chris Capuano stuff is whether he has "IT," whether he has grace and balance (for plus control) and a feel for pitchability. Gonzalez' 78 MPH deadfish change used to be a plus-plus pitch.
√ The St. Louis Cardinals, who sit North of our own club on the baseball totem pole, deemed the kid suitable for postseason performance a couple years back. Marco showed them right, too. This is no small consideration, jury folk.
√ Bat571's argument and stats about the post-June 18 performance are worth consideration. Worth a cheerful mood, actually :- ) but the judge isn't supposed to say that.
IFF Marco turns out to be a changeup lefty who has "IT" -- like Beuhrle, Romero, and Vargas did -- then, yeah, Bat and Zoom are just as liable to win this case on behalf of Dipoto.
Getting excited to see Marco c'mon up here and show us what he's got.
Enjoy,
Dr D
Feinsand says they're still discussing a way to put together a deal for him...with limited resources, I have to imagine getting Gray would have to involve one of the hot young outfielders and Kyle Lewis...but...we'll see.
I hope Jerry isn't overly serious about this. Don't get me wrong, a Gray-sized commitment to this season would be exceptionally fun to watch. But at the reported price tag, knowing that we already burned the hyped prospect that didn't have a clear path to success on our team, I don't like it. We're in the wrong place to be packaging Lewis and one of our awesome stable of OFs for a guy who's been worth 1.7 WAR so far. I highly doubt Gray pushes us over the top. That will depend on the guys already in house. Let's not burn the minors to the ground unless we're sure it's our year.
I think most of the dissenters w/r/t this trade (myself included) don't think Gonzales is going to flop horrifically...
I, for one, am expecting a decent #4 SP out of him.
The beef I have is that this move is strategically incoherent. If you didn't acquire Gonzales thinking he could help in 2017 (and they must not have, since he's still in AAA), and you claim that your mission is to help now AND later with each move, then why would you squander out best trade chit for him at all? Now the club is still talking about Sonny Gray...gee wouldn't it have been nice to have O'Neill to offer the As to get a deal done?
So, apart from potentially being a big trade down in talent, even if Gonzales succeeds, it doesn't fit the needs of the club in the here and now. And here we are, probably going to fall short on getting the pieces we actually need here and now.
1st day in the Lance Painter LH Pitcher Tweak Shop and we get 6 IP, 3 Runs on 6 Hits (3 XBH) with 5 Ks, 1 BB, and a WIN. Presumably before Lance has had a chance to tweak and get that FB running a solid 92.
Note that 3 of the hits, including 2 2Bs, were to MLB(tm) journeyman Justin Ruggiano, and the other XBH (also 2B) went to the older brother of a kid the M's just signed as a IFA - Querecuto.
So, not too bad to start his M's time. While he may have an innings limit coming out of the TJ, I expect we'll see him at Safeco pretty soon.
In that he's a Lefty Masher with a career OPS over .850 against LHP, so I can forgive a couple doubles.
Thanks bat!
The name that interested me above is Buehrle. If Gonzo is a 200 innings guy, then I don't care if he runs a 4.40 ERA.
But i stir think Tank reduces the K's, slugs homers, and makes us miss him, eventually.
Remember when throwing 95mph was impressive? Now two out of every three guys out of every bullpen seem to.
But as a species, I think we're never going to tire of speed--and now in addition to the gun and the stop watch times to first base, we have batted ball exit velocities to add to the shock and awe.
If pitching is keeping batters off balance, maybe the Marcos of the world are the new market inefficiency?
One of our sterling 4 CF's and Lewis can't even get up the ante to get us in the game for the Gray one.
Yankees, Astros, and Brewers have deep prospect pockets.
Atlanta and Rangers are intested (although Rangers have to make up their mind on Hammels and Darvish ... still, Sonny's long range costs look superior).
John Heyman claims Gray "is the only name in the deadline game".
It's gonna take a bunch more than the Cubs just gave up for Quintana, another long term contract guy and one of those guys was a top ten prospects in all of baseball.
Cost of Gray will eclipse the upcoming lunar eclipse, so, don't go betting the moon on M's in this.
All that said, I'm still guessing they sign another starter if they are still close to WC after first two games with Red Sox.
zoom
The title is fake news.
Why not Verlander? The velocity is there FB average is 95+ with peaks in the upper 90's. He is a year removed from Kate Upton's CY snub remark "I thought I was the only 1 that got to F*** Justin V.". 4.5 ERA 4.21 fip based mainly on nearly double his career BB/9 rate. The rumors involve Detroit not wanting to pay a large portion of his remaining 2 X28 mill with an 20M attractive option.