I'm just going to list these links. Well worth your time for background on pitcher development / injury rehab.
https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2017/6/13/15782420/kyle-boddy-drivelin...
https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2017/6/13/15783088/kyle-boddy-drivelin...
https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2017/6/13/15783536/kyle-boddy-drivelin...
UCL tears are no longer an end to a career, but so much more is going on.
Source: #Mariners close to acquiring Erasmo Ramirez from #Rays. @MLB @MLBNetwork
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Threw him away earlier, now he might be back. Any way we can get Chris Taylor back during this trade deadline? I mean, he's out-hitting Jean Segura and will be WAY cheaper for the next 5 years. The Mariners wheeling-and-dealing doesn't seem to net them much in the end.
Let's see what future starter we can move for Erasmo.
Which then opens up a bullpen spot for Marco, you'd think.
So assuming Cishek and Gonzales cancel each other out, basically we wound up trading Tyler O'Neill for Erasmo Ramirez. Who could hate that, right?
...that DOES seem like a little bit of an assumption. =) But I know what you mean on the Tank trade.
They keep using the term to justify incoming pieces but not to value outgoing ones. Marco Gonzales isn't as good an option as Steve Cishek is right now, maybe, but he has lots of control left. Of course the guy who went out (O'Neill) has just as much team control and is the better-rated prospect with less injury history and at a less-injury-riddled position generally. So there the argument is fit, I guess - even though Marco still isn't with the big club so his fit is a future fit, which can be altered easily with other moves.
Erasmo then comes in as a "need" or "fit" player, with club control as another selling point. That part makes a bit more sense to me, as Erasmo can be a fit right now and also a #5 option in future years. He has experience, he also knows the AL and this park specifically. Cishek is up after this year, Erasmo has a couple more years on his control.
But if you asked me whether I'd rather have the next 3 months of Cishek and 6+ years of O'Neill, or 6 years of Marco and another 2-ish of Erasmo, I would take the first option. Grabbing a pair of long-relievers / #5-6 starters just isn't as useful to me, since at least one of those pitchers we now have will be redundant. They are both spaghetti, with the loser either going to the pen or off the team. It's the same thing that happened with Overton / Gaviglio / Bergman / De Jong / et al. Dipoto expended a ton of energy looking for #5-style spaghetti this offseason, failed, and is now continuing the search at the trade deadline.
I would rather have seen the Mariners turn Cishek / O'Neill / whatever into one better pitcher. Consolidation usually indicates a plan, for better or worse. This just looks like a lot of straw-grasping. Still hoping Erasmo goes on a 2.5 ERA sprint to October, though. He's always been a guy I root for.
~G
Those guys were waiver wire pick ups, traded for cash, and an org guy. Marco Gonzales isn't blowing the doors off the hinges, but he was a Top-100 prospect with a ~70 Grade Change before the TJ surgery which is pretty much de rigueur these days. His upside is better than a stop-gap #5, and Ty O'Neill has kicked off his Cards career batting .188/.176/.438 with 6 Ks in 17 PA. You were the one that got me to look at O'Neill more like a Wladimir Balentien/Greg Halman/Eric Thames type, and those guys end up as iffy 4th Outfielders all the time, and even when they succeed, Mark Reynolds is often what they look like. Would a trade of Mark Reynolds for Jason Vargas have been a coup in 2010?
I don't like the Gonzales trade, but it is over and done. I don't evaluate the Ramirez trade based on the Gonzales trade. I think this is a slam dunk win for the Mariners. Cishek is posting some rather poor DIPS numbers and, frankly, is not remotely reliable with people on base. Erasmo Ramirez replaces either Gallardo or Moore (Moore appears to not be ready for prime time, alas...he has no sense of danger avoidance and his secondary pitches are pretty lousy) and Gonzales might replace the other one of those two. This opens up a bullpen slot...for...someone...we have other choices...would be interesting to see them leapfrog Vieira right up here. :)
~2 MPH since last season, which helps explain his disintigrating peripherals. I'm honestly surprised the Rays went for the deal, but apparently they're desperatish for bullpen help. My thought was that Simmons will probably be up in the next week or so, and he'll push Gallardo or Ramirez off the roster.
Much better than what I thought the Mariners would be doing to add Erasmo. The fight to post a 90 OPS+ from the back of the rotation is real, and important for netting the wins necessary to make the playoffs. It's not sexy, but it's important.