Hideki Matsui -- supposedly Ichiro wants him to be the DH. OPS+ of 124 at 36 for LAAA (24 dbl, 21 HR, 67 BB, 98 K). Angels paid him $6M for that. Career low OPS+ is 108. Bats left.
Eric Chavez -- MVP candidate at 24; hasn't really played since 2006. Will be 33 next year. Had a 7-year run of gold-plated .270/.350/.500 from the left side, then fell off the map with injuries. Who knows what he's got left?
Jack Cust -- already been discussed at great length here, except this time it appears they really are interested in signing him. Classic TTO -- whiff, walk or whallop. Also bats lefty.
Matt Diaz -- righty leftfielder nontendered by Atlanta will be 33. Puts up pretty decent numbers against lefties, and supposedly is being viewed as a guy to share time with Saunders.
Rich Harden -- former hot commodity struggled plenty in '10 and was left off the Rangers' postseason roster. Was a 10 K/9 guy in his prime; but gave up gophers and walks galore last year, and it wasn't just The Wind Tunnel at Arlington -- he was slightly worse on the road. Cost Texas $6.5M last season. Would allow Ms to corner market on once-great Canadian pitchers.
Greg Zaun -- a 40-year-old warm body as a safety net for Adam Moore, yes. But actually has surprisingly good eye ratio his whole career, and he's a switch hitter.
When you look at it, these appear to be exactly the kind of vets that the Z-crew would target. Low-risk, moderate-to-high-reward guys; no long-term contracts; no major stink-bombs (at least at first blush).
Otherwise...a nice summary of the Mariners' action. I'm guessing they get two of those guys...maybe three if two of them are Diaz and Zaun (cheap). They'll hopefully get one of Matsui/Cust and at least Diaz or Zaun to he;p the bench. Not a fan of Harden at this point. His fastball velo last year was 90.5 mph and it's arrow straight up the ladder. EEEEEEWWWW.
Matsui...Ugh! I just don't see this as happening. A 36 year old DH with declining skills in doesn't make since.
I would much, much, much prefer we just bite the bullet and go with Mangini, or Mike Wilson, or Carp or Halman of the guys we control....I don't know how to figure it, but if you had to bet $3M (or whatever) against the minimum that Matsui would have a better year than every one of those guys (given the AB's), would you? I wouldn't. Matsui vs the field is a bad bet, especially when the field bet is so low cost (essentially free).
Cust can at least pretend to play in the field still....And he's a better fit in Safeco. I like him a lot more than Matsui.
I've always liked Diaz. When healthy, he hits. He could be a DH/OF guy. 50 starts in left, or so. DH a bunch.
But I suppose that Milton Bradley is as good as a bet (as much as I dislike what he brings) as those guys. And you're paying him anyway.
The FA market is not solving this team's issues, this year (becasue we can't bid for a long term solution), with the DH. I would rather we spend the money on a pitcher and go with what we've got. We're going young...let's let the young guys go at it.
The odds that that between a Mangini, Carp, Wilson, Bradley group...one guy produces something at DH.
If Cust were a cheap 2-3 year sign, I would do that, however.
And I dump Figgy.
moe
Godzilla is a lefty.
Latest rumors say that Diaz is a hot property, with 10 teams interested.
Also saying Ms might bring back Miguel Olivo as a C option.
Also interest in Koji Uehara.
was that they want to bring in some vets so that the kids have to fight for their jobs rather than having them bestowed upon them. But obviously they aren't going to break the bank or tie themselves up in long-term deals.
Looks from the reports that they are looking at Godzilla only as a DH. And his numbers actually don't seem to be dropping much at all, just getting less playing time. His 2010 looked almost the same as his 2009 and 2007 to me.
"Sense" not "since!" I hate hurrying.
But a Wilson, Carp, Mangini, Bradley battle-royal makes more sense as a DH option then $Xm of Godzilla.
moe
Tom Gorzelanny to that list pretty soon, as he's a cheap, team controlled (through 2013) lefty with decent stuff that the Cubs apparently really want to unload
Carp sucks (not enough pop). Mangini sucks (mediocre strikezone control, horrible fielder, not that that matters for your DH), Mike Wilson...maybe...but I think he needs to prove he can repeat his improved walk total and stay competitive in the big leagues...Halman sucks big time...worse than Mangini. None of those guys will ever be quality major leaguers. Matsui isn't showing that much in terms of age decline yet...he could decline badly this year...but I'd bet a lot of money he'll outhit everyone on your list by at least 200 OPS points. Oh and we can't fill every line-up spot with kids...most of them will bust and ALL of them will feel way...way too much pressure.
Tasty...tasty spaghetti...
Cantu is not exciting me...career .660 hitter agaisnt power pitching (.808 vs. finesse)...righty pull-hitter with AWEFUL K/BB history and getting up enough in years to risk bat speed decline...struggled in the inferior league last year. Not a good fielder at any time at 2B or 3B...mediocre defensive at first and doesn't hit enough.
And Jorge Cantu as a RH bat (or Matt beat me to that one)
Can't say that any of that group are too exciting.
...is that Z appears absolutely desperate to cram this roster with depth...potentially useful depth with upside and no risk...to force the kids to earn their spots.
Don't like Cantu, but Hendrickson, Gorzelanny, Matsui, Cust, Diaz...all potentially nice grabs.
Has the potential to do what Jason Vargas has done the last 2 years.
Gorzelanny is another lotto draw at a Moyer/Vargas ticket out of scrub hades. As of now, the Mariner rotation is Felix, Vargas, Pineda, spit and glue. We need at least one more innings-eater on the cheap.
Puts lots of guys on base. But I know virtually nothing about the guy, so I'm happy to defer. If he's cheap and helps, it's fine by me.
Say both Baker and Divishhttp://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2013616095_lou_piniel......
Especially since we're getting beaten by the As. BOOOOOOO
I'll take Cust then...not a huge fan...but he's better than Parker Brothers.
Not pitch for the M's anymore????
Or are we saying that last year (especially the first half of last year) was a fluke???
I'm fairly convinced that Fister is a serviceable #5 starter...but equally convinced that the first half of the season was freakishly flukish. Not saying he doens't have value...but I'd rather not be absolutely counting on him for 35 starts out of the 4 hole.
On him is probably a mistake. How "countable" is Vargas though??? I guess i just sort of lump Fister and Vargas into the same group. ok 4th and 5th starter candidates. a step above David Pauley emergency starter status, but I would push them away if anything better comes around.
In my mind we really only have one garuntee (Felix) Two shots at very good pitchers that may or may not pan out (Bedard and Pineda), and then a BUNCH of guys that could soak innings mediocrely (Vargas, Fister, Pauley, etc.)
I would love Gorzelanny in an M's uniform. Especially since the market will probably price Jeff Francis out of reach.
Had to think for a moment about that reference Matt. I like it.
I like Cust, too. However, Parker Brothers is getting paid already. Cust is an additional cost. For one year cheap, I don't do it. For two years cheap, which means he could be a cheap bat when we might have a chance in 2012, I think I do. For one year to just fill a hole...I think I would rather just see if young talent develops. Carp's retooled swing against MLB arms, for example. Mike Wilson, for example.
A Cust/Mike Wilson platoon at DH would be interesting. But then that situation assumes that MB/PK isn't playing...or is playing in leftfield, which would mean you've traded Guti or Saunders.
A Carp/Mike Wilson platoon would be more interesting, I think. Not more successful next year, necessarily, but with the payoff of finding out who can hit and who can't.
If we have limited FA cash...I would much prefer that it go to a pitcher. Felix, Fister, Pineda, Vargas ain't too bad. However...that's a rotation missing a fifth arm.
moe
I'm not interested in stop-gaps, but Gorzelanny is definetly intriguing. Thats a potential long-term SP solution.
Harden too. Hes a Bedard type gamble for specs at the deadline if he finds his groove.
I really don't care for spending money on a stop-gap DH, especially given the Nishioka pass.
We really can't be counting on Bedard to make many starts...and eventually I think he's going to the bullpen when his arm starts hurting again. But we can't count on Pineda for 200 IP either...he's never thrown anywhere near that many innings in one season before.
Those two are one SP slot, Felix, Vargas and Fister are possibly three more...we would still need another SP in that scenario.
We don't ened to spend much to get a fifth arm. Not that I'm in love with Gorzelanny, but I'm thinking he's better than French or Pauley and will cost not much more than they do. We need a veteran power bat...Mike Wilson and Mike Carp don't provide any cover for the two kids we want to land softly this year (Ackley/Smoak)...we need a few older guys to keep the pressure off as the kids get their shots.
Carpenter came back after missing 2003 and made 28 starts, and he came back after making 5 games across 2007/2008, he came back and made 28 starts. While we shouldn't count on Bedard to make 20 something starts, I don't think it's reasonable to assume that it's impossible.
...just that when you build a roster in the off-season you make conservative estimates for how much PT to get out of each piece and you assume some worst case scenarios to get your depth to be enough to survive in the event of disaster, likely or otherwise. Disaster is LIKELY with Bedard. I think it's LIKELY he misses time or moves to the pen at some point. He COULD do really well for us and win the CY...anything's possible. But you don't plan for that.
I think from now on, the rumor mill for Seattle should just read: Mariners interested in EVERYONE!!!!
LOL
Luis Valbuena was a disaster in Cleveland last year, but has some upside as a possible stopgap if you want to give Ackley some time in AAA before his call-up...or at least to force Ackley to earn the starting gig.
Keeping 2b warm for Ack and then utility. Had some nice OBP years in the minors, but hasn't translated to MLB yet. He'll only be 25 next year.
His first season in 2009, he hit about what I'd expect from him as a big leaguer...not sure why he fell apart last year...he's minor league K/BB has always been decent, he's got above average power for a utility infielder, he plays average defense at all the infield positions...he's always had a decent eye...not sure why he stopped hitting all of a sudden. I should ask some Indians fans what they think.
This is exactly the type of season you do plan for it. Unless you're going to pick up a pitcher who will be here in 2012 and preferably beyond, then I don't think there's any harm in "planning" for Bedard to pitch most of the season, as long as there are starters hanging around to soak up the innings if he doesn't, which the Mariners have in spades in the form of Fister, French, Beaven, Roe, etc.
I understand the argument to make sure the team is competitive even if some players falter so as not to further lose the fan base, but the idea that we have to pick up an additional starter on a one year (which is almost certainly what we would do in the event that we don't count on Bedard for more than one or two starts) that likely wouldn't be much better than what we already have in the minors/back end rotation seems a bit pointless.
I've got these guys penciled into my rotation:
- Felix
- Vargas
- Pineda/Bedard
- Fister
We need at least on more arm to cover the last rotation spot. You could punt and just let French suck it up hard core since that's all he's capable of doing. Or try to get something out fo the guy who just gave up a fifty-billion ERA in AAA last year (Roe) or hand the spot to the guy who hasn't pitched above AA yet (Robles/Beaven) or the journeyman who barely made the roster roster in the AL (Pauley) and was mediocre at best in that stretch with no upside. Or...we could pick up an extra guy on the cheap like Gorzelanny who has upside and might still be here in 2014. But if you'd rather plan on the guy who hasn't had a full season since 2007 to have a full season and then enjoy 7 ERAs from your crappy scrubs all year when he predictably can't do it...that's another possible take. I would love for Bedard to work out...he might. I just don't see the harm in adding some insurance to keep us in games and give the rookies a chance to be in some contests close enough to win.
since that makes sense I will have to agree.
I like Mike Carp as full time DH, a very underwealming solution.
sign Diaz if you can, playing time in left to be determined
OK Zaun backup C, Diaz OF/DH/depth, Valbuena reclaimation project/keep 2B warm/utility or washout, 1 SP from J. Francis, B. McCarthy, Gorzelanny, 1 veteran RP from whomever, backup infielder better than Josh Wilson from?, DH upgrade from within because the rest are so underwelming.
Just say no to Matsui, Chavez, Cust, Olivo, Cantu and other stopgaps.
NO trades of Ackley, Smoak or Pineda
OK done! lets start the season
on a two-year deal.
But add Nationals OF Josh Willingham, except that Wash appears to be asking for a big return, in which case it seems unlikely.
...I'd give up a package around Halman and a lesser pitcher like Wilhelmson or Robles and a lesser OF like Saunders for Willingham...think that'd be enough?
I don't make that trade, if I'm the M's, Matt. Halman and the lesser pitcher I have no problem giving up, but not Saunders, yet.
I would love to have Willingham's eye and the 40-50extra-base hits he puts up nearly every year I want to see what Saunders becomes for another year.
Willingham made it to the bigs when he was 25, but in his first two years of MLB play he only had 57 PA's. Essentially, he broke in at age 27.
Saunders just turned 24 (less than a month ago) and he already has 468 PA's. His stroke HAS improved (and I used to hate it, calling him "Loopy" Saunders) and last year he began to show flashes of very nice power.
What does that project out to be at age 27? I think I like that, right now.
I don't let that potential go (along with two other guys), for a 31 year old Willingham. Not just yet, anyway.
moe
His swing is better...and it's still YOOOGLY IMHO...there's a reason he's only able to hit .210. Maybe he gels and has a few good years...but Willingham is exactly the kind of righty bat we need that can handle Safeco and we've got a ton of other outfielders about to storm the beaches with better upside than Saunders.
With someone like Gorzelanny, who will be under control for a couple more years. I mean, I brought up the suggestion. I take some issue with paying Jeff Francis to come here for a year and rebuild his value, while he maxes out at Jason Vargas levels and otherwise doesn't really help the Mariners do much except maybe finish .500 unless everything goes right. I'd much rather have the Mariners turn out to be the "myster" team that offered Cliff Lee 7 years, dangerous as that may end up being.
I have no interest in a one-year pitcher...on that we are agreed. I want someone with upside like Gorzelanny or Harden...or nothing at all.
Agreed. The M's need a RH bat to stick in the middle of the lineup that won't embarass them. Ichiro-Figgins-Cust-Willingham-Smoak-Gutz-Ackley-C-SS is vastly superior to lineup the M's ran out there last year, regardless of who is manning SS and C. Might actually have a shot at an average offense with that group.
...for us to dump players off the 40-man and make room for the FA C, Cust and a Rule V pick...all of whom have to be crammed onto the 40-man. Willingham is exactly the kind of guy I try to do my 3-for-1 deal for to make space on the roster. Then you can DFA Rob Johnson to make room for your free agent catcher and you're still on your budget for players and salaries.
If the Nats will take it...you have to make that Willingham for Saunders or Halman plus pitching to fill it out deal happen.
MLB Rumors - Lance Nix.
lefty OF, I guess were going to give up on Suanders as well as Moore